Bruno Krucker, tus khub ntawm Zurich chaw lis haujlwm V Ballmoos Krucker Architekten, tau mus ntsib Moscow hauv kev sib txuas nrog kev nthuav qhia "Swiss Zos" tau tuav hauv Lub Tsev Nruab Nrab ntawm Cov Kws Tsim Nyog uas yog ib feem ntawm Arch Arch Moscow thiab Thib Tsib Moscow Biennale ntawm Architecture. Cov kws ua yeeb yam hauv chaw ua yeeb yam - Elena Kosovskaya thiab Yuri Palmin, cov kws ua yeeb yam hauv chaw ua haujlwm - Kirill Ass thiab Nadezhda Korbut, tsim qauv kos duab - groza.design. Qhov kev nthuav tawm tau ua nrog kev txhawb nqa ntawm Pro Helvetia Foundation thiab Meganom Project architectural Bureau.
Archi.ru:
Nyob rau hauv cov ntawv tshaj tawm rau kev nthuav qhia "Swiss Zos" muaj ib nqe lus los ntawm cov kws sau xov xwm kws tsim vaj tsev Axel Simon: Kuv nkag siab tias cov no yog cov lus nrov dhau, thiab, raws li nws zoo li rau kuv, nws tsis yog nyob rau txhua qhov teeb meem ntawm lub siab dawb paug, tab sis - kom tsis txhob ua kom tsis muaj tseeb rau leej twg - Kuv xav nug koj kom piav qhia dab tsi yog qhov peculiarity ntawm koj lub architecture, thiab, Vim li cas koj thiaj xav tias nws tsis haum lwm tus?
Bruno Krucker:
- Nws tsis yog cov lus hais ntawd, tab sis kuv hnov ib yam zoo li ua ntej (luag nyav). Lub ntsiab lus yog tias, piv rau lwm tus kws lij choj Swiss, peb tsis tshua mob siab rau qhov "zoo meej nthuav dav", nyiam cov tectonics thiab cov khoom siv ntawm cov khoom txhua yam. Peb tuaj yeem hais tias peb lub tsev kawm ntawv yog qhov hnyav dua li lwm tus, nws tuaj yeem hu ua kev lim hiam. Brutalism yog lub hauv paus ntsiab lus, vim nws yog qhov kev coj ua hauv architecture ntawm xyoo 1950 - 1970 uas cuam tshuam peb lub tswv yim thiab kev pom ntawm txoj haujlwm. Kuv txoj kev nyiam nrog kev ua phem tau pib nyob rau hauv kuv cov tub ntxhais kawm xyoo, thiab kaum xyoo dhau los kuv tau ua kev kawm ntawm Alison thiab Peter Smithson ["Komplexe Gewöhnlichkeit - Der Upper Lawn Pavillon von Alison und Peter Smithson", 2002] thiab thaum kawg los ntseeg kuv nyiam.
Thaum xaus ntawm kev qhuab qhia hauv MARSH lub tsev kawm, Evgeny Ass tau nug koj kom paub meej lub hom phiaj ntawm koj kev coj ua, sau cov tswv yim thiab cov hau kev uas koj tau muab rau koj, thiab nws zoo li rau kuv tias koj tau txaj muag me ntsis. Dab tsi yog qhov laj thawj rau koj tsis ntseeg?
- Kuv tsis yog ib tus neeg nyiam hais lus, thiab nws yog qhov nyuaj rau kuv los teb cov lus nug no. Qhov no zoo ib yam nrog cov menyuam yaus nug txog dab tsi thiab vim li cas. Cov lus nug zoo li no yog kev poob siab thiab koj yeej tsis yog, los ntawm thiab loj, npaj rau lawv. Nws zoo li rau kuv tias kuv qhov qauv tsim ua tiag tiag, tsis muaj txiaj ntsig, koom tes hauv ntau lub neej txheej txheem - paub rau txhua tus. Ua ntej tshaj plaws, nws yog qhov tsim nyog los them se rau cov txheej txheem uas niaj hnub ua, cuam tshuam rau txoj kev ntawm lub neej, thiab tsuas yog hauv txoj kev no koj yuav nkag siab qhov twg tso lub rooj, rooj zaum, txaj lossis chav dej. Tom qab txhua yam, architecture yog keeb kwm yav dhau los rau lub neej. Thiab koj, uas yog tus saib, tsis txhob pom txhua qhov nyuaj ntawm qhov qauv ntawm cov qauv, tsis nkag siab txog kev sib txuam ntawm cov qauv tsim, nws tsis tseem ceeb rau koj ntau me ntsis, tsawg me ntsis ntawm kab ntawv no, lossis tsis. Ib zaug, paub zoo rau koj Elena Kosovskaya, yog ib tus neeg saib xyuas ntawm kev nthuav qhia, txawm hu ua qhov kuv xav tau "kev xav ua rau kev tsis txaus ntseeg" (luag).
Phau Ntawv Kev Xav Architecture [“Xav Txog Architecture”] Peter Zumthor pib nrog zaj lus luv, qhov twg tus kws sau ntawv tham txog kev nco txog me nyuam yaus ua qhov muaj zog tshaj plaws uas ua rau nws pom ntxiv ntawm architecture. Koj puas muaj cov dab neeg zoo sib xws?
- Kuv tsis muaj cov dab neeg muaj hwj chim zoo li Peter li (luag nyav). Tab sis muaj ib tug xov tooj ntawm cov txheej xwm ua tsaug rau uas kuv pom tias nws yog dab tsi - Kuv lub architecture. Thaum kuv tseem yog tub ntxhais kawm, Analogue Architecture tau txais lub zog, txaus siab rau qhov muaj koob meej ntawm kuv cov phooj ywg hauv chav kawm, uas yog tus muaj lub npe muaj txiaj ntsig ntawm Valerio Olghati, uas tom qab ntawd tau los ua lub luag haujlwm ntawm qee yam "guru" hauv zej zog cov tub ntxhais kawm. Kuv tau saib qhov ntws los ntawm sab, tsis yog tias kuv yuav tsis lees nws, es, Kuv sim nrhiav qee yam ntawm kuv tus kheej. Nyob rau tib lub sijhawm, Herzog thiab de Meuron nquag pib lawv txoj haujlwm, cov tswv yim uas tawm los ntawm kev tsim kho nrog kev npaj txhij txog ntawm cov ntaub ntawv. Yog tsis muaj zais, kuv tuaj yeem hais tias lawv muaj feem cuam tshuam kuv.
Nws yog lub sijhawm tseem ceeb hauv Swiss architecture, yog li ua kom zoo nkauj, nrog zoo saib kom meej, yog li huv thiab huv nws tau vwm. Lub ntsiab lus teb ntawm Swiss tuaj yeem sib piv nrog Lavxias, kev chaotic, tsis meej, me ntsis tsis quav ntsej. Thaum xyoo 1980s, peb pom tias qhov kev coj dawb huv no tau txaus rau peb, thiab peb tau kev tshoov siab los ntawm cov kev paub ntawm cov "laus", cov tsev ntoo uas ib tus priori tsis tuaj yeem yog qhov zoo tshaj plaws. Peb tau hom ntawm provocateurs. Piv txwv li, Stoeckenacker thaj chaw nyob hauv Zurich, ib qho ntawm peb thawj qhov dej num, yog thiab tseem yog qhov tshaj tsis yog rau cov neeg ua haujlwm hauv cov chaw tsim khoom.
Leej twg rau koj ua raws li hom "taw tes txhawb nqa"Tej zaum txawm muaj tus cob qhia? Nws puas tsim nyog los saib txog cov kev paub dhau los ntawm cov neeg ua ntej ntawm lub moj khaum ntawm kev kawm architectural?
- Thaum kuv nyuam qhuav pib, Kuv zoo siab kawm Miroslav Shik txoj haujlwm. Kuv ntau tus phooj ywg poob rau hauv nws lub hwj chim, lawv tau ua tej yam zoo kawg, tab sis lawv yeej tsis qhia lawv "foothold", zais hais tias lawv tau hais txog lub tsev uas twb muaj lawm. Tam sim no qhov xwm txheej yog diametrically rov qab. Valerio Olghati tau ua tiav nws lub vev xaib nrog ntau cov duab zoo, thiab tau sib sau ua ke ntawm [Cov Duab ntawm Cov Kws Ua Haujlwm] ntawm "fulcrum" ntawm cov kws ua yeeb yam nto moo ntawm Swiss. Cov ncauj lus no tsis tshua muaj neeg cuam tshuam. Rov qab rau xyoo 2009, kuv cov npoj yaig Thomas von Balmoos thiab kuv tau ua ib qho kev ua yeeb yam "Bauten und Spekulationen / Cov Vaj Tsev thiab Kev Txhim Kho" hauv Berlin nplooj siab rau cov ncauj lus no. Sab hauv Aedes chav ua yeeb yaj kiab, peb tau ua ib lub tsev pheeb suab los ntawm OSB, qhov chaw uas peb dai peb cov kab kos, kev ua haujlwm, thiab cov ntawv luam ntawm cov duab uas cuam tshuam rau peb.
Txuas yog qhov tseem ceeb heev vim tias lawv muaj kev sib txuas lus ntawm cov kws ua vaj tsev nyob ntau txoj hauv kev. Yog tias ib qho ntawm cov tub ntxhais kawm lossis cov neeg ua haujlwm hluas tsis nkag siab qhov kuv xav hais, ces kuv tso ua piv txwv, txhua yam yog yooj yim.
Thaum ua haujlwm nrog kev sib txuas, koj yuav tsum nkag siab tias qhov no tsis yog cov lus hais ncaj qha, tsis muaj kev nthuav qhia. Koj yuav tsum rov xav txog qhov koj pom, thiab tsis luam nws huv si, tsis muaj ib qho taw qhia hauv Palladio lub tsev so, lawv hais tias, saib leej twg kuv tham nrog, ntawm no nws yog, kuv "fulcrum", zoo li yog qhov tseem ceeb tshaj koj teb li cas. Txawm hais tias, hmoov tsis zoo, cov tub ntxhais kawm, zoo li feem pua ncaj ncees ntawm cov tub txawg ua tiav, parasitize ntawm cov khoom txais tos, thiab qee zaum tseem rov hais dua cov khoom ntawm ntiaj teb architecture, qhov tseeb, tsis muaj nqes dab tsi ntawm lawv tus kheej hauv lawv. Qhov no yog qhov tsis yooj yim rau lub siab. Tej zaum nws yuav tsis tshua pom tseeb hauv kuv cov kev tsim kho, tab sis yog tias koj ua tib zoo saib, koj yuav pom qhov kev tsis sib txuas no nrog ntau lub hauv paus.
Muaj lub ntiaj teb tag nrho ntawm cov khoom tseem ceeb: Smithsons, Pouillon, Alejandro de la Sota, uas nws ua haujlwm kuv tau ntsib hauv kuv txoj haujlwm kev kawm thaum hnub nyoog peb caug (thiab kuv cov npoj yaig, tus tsim lub chaw haujlwm, Thomas von Balmoos, txawm ua haujlwm nrog nws), Canadian tus kws kos duab David Rabinovich, nco qab txog qhov muaj peev xwm nthuav dav, rov xav txog cov tswv yim - faib thiab kev deb ntawm kev nkag siab. Thiab, ntawm chav kawm, xinesmas, Kuv vwm txog Antonioni, muaj ib xyoo thaum kuv nyob hauv Paris, lub sijhawm kuv saib, yog tias tsis yog txhua txhua, ces feem ntau ntawm cov neeg tshaj lij ntawm ntiaj teb xinesmas. Qhov kev xaiv ntawm "fulcrum" yog txiav txim siab los ntawm qhov project, typology, daim ntawv, cov khoom siv, thiab lwm yam, qee zaum peb txawm hais txog qhov zoo ntawm peb cov npoj yaig tam sim no thiab muaj kev vam meej (nws luag nyav). Qhov "fulcrum" yog koj li keeb kwm yav dhau, nyob rau hauv kev sib cuag nrog uas koj tsim qee yam ntawm koj tus kheej. Nws zoo li kuv tias txhua tus kws kes duab vajtse yuav tsum tau yoov hauv ntiaj teb nyob ib puag ncig nws, mus rau hauv li cas lwm tus tau sim thiab tseem tab tom sim tsim qee yam, piav qhia. Nov yog hom kev tshaj lij hauv kev ua haujlwm.
Tsis pub dhau lub moj khaum ntawm kev ua yeeb yam, cov kws ua zaub mov noj tau koj txoj haujlwm ntawm Trimli thaj chaw "Qauv rau Kev Sib Ntsib", raws li kev ua haujlwm ntawm Julio Cortazar. Tab sis cia peb tsis tham txog phau ntawv, hauv koj cov dej num koj feem ntau siv vaj huam sib luag, tab sis lub vaj huam sib luag yog qhov sib koom ua ke ntawm kev lag luam, thoob ntiaj teb hauv qhov xwm txheej, hauv koj kis nws dhau los ua cim. Puas yog qhov no txhais tau ib yam dab tsi hauv ib cheeb tsam, uas koj ua flirting nrog lub ntiaj teb, muab cov kev txhais tshiab tshiab?
- Nws txhua tus pib nrog qhov no, tab sis qhov peb tuaj mus tuaj yeem raug hu ua qhov tshwj xeeb dua li hauv zos - hauv qhov zoo ntawm lo lus. Piv txwv li, "Trimli" yog qhov xav txog ntawm "rov ua dua" ntawm cov qhov rooj, qhov rai, cov chav tsev hom. Nyob rau tib lub sijhawm, nws yog qhov tseem ceeb kom nkag siab tias txhua zaus koj khoov cov duab, koj hloov hom, ua rau nws txawv ntawm nws qhov tseem ceeb. Tib yam tshwm sim nrog kab sib chaws ntawm lub tsev, uas tuaj yeem nyuaj hu ua tsis tu ncua, thiab qhov tseeb ntawm daim phiaj feem ntau, qhov no yog qee yam ntawm cov tswv yim kev txiav txim siab, tab sis nws nyhav rau kev ua yeeb yam zoo li tsis yog technogenic. Qhov no tsis yog monotonous kawg façade; nws muaj cov txheej txheem rov ua dua uas tsim lub suab sib dhos tshwj xeeb uas yog txoj cai thiab tsis suav. Ib phau ntawv sau los ntawm tus kws lij choj Fabkis txoj Gilles Deleuze "Qhov sib txawv thiab rov ua dua", uas tau nug cov lus nug txog qhov tseem ceeb ntawm ntau haiv neeg nyob hauv, thaum xub thawj siab ib muag, tib yam, uas muab me ntsis rau kev teeb tsa, tab sis tib lub sijhawm, lub tswv yim no yog kiag li ua rau txaus siab, yuav ua li cas “cov lus” nrog tib cov ntawv sau kom muaj lub ntsiab sib txawv nyob ntawm lawv txoj haujlwm hauv cov ntsiab lus. Kuv xav ntseeg tias kuv lub architecture hais txog qee yam zoo sib xws, vim kuv txaus siab xav rov xav txog dogmas - cov ntsiab lus, cov qauv, tib lub npe sib tw. Feem ntau ntawm cov tsev feem ntau yog qhov tshwm sim ntawm kev lag luam kev lag luam, qhov twg cov kws ua qauv tsim vaj tsev xav tau suav txhua yam. Piv txwv li, ib zaug nrov Ernst Neufert tau yooj yim kev nkag siab ntawm cov txheej txheem tsim kom tsis yooj yim sua. Kuv tsis yog hais tias kuv yog tus neeg sib ntaus nrog kev xav, tsis yog, Kuv tsis yog tus neeg txhawb nqa ntawm kev sib sau ua vaj ua tsev, tab sis kuv tsis lees txais kev ntseeg Superstudio ib qho, lawv nyob deb ntawm kev muaj tiag. Rov qab mus rau lo lus nug, Kuv yuav tsis hais tias peb txoj kev hais txog qee hom kev ua haujlwm hauv cheeb tsam, theej, nws hais txog cov yam ntxwv ntawm thaj chaw, nws tshwj xeeb.
Koj siv mesh thiab tsev cov khoom siv zoo li gestalt. Kuv puas nkag siab zoo hais tias kev koom ua ke ntawm cov blocks yog qhov tseem ceeb ntawm koj kev nkag siab txog tectonic ntawm architecture?
- Kev xyiv fab ntawm kev lees paub yog qhov tseem ceeb ntawm kev ua si. Ib qho khoom siv twg muaj qhov tsim, tsim kab lis kev cai thiab zoo nkauj, raws li qhov koj pib tsim qauv kos duab, tso nws rau hauv cov ntsiab lus. Muaj ib qho kev cuam tshuam ntawm cov khoom siv thiab cov qauv mesh. Peb cov cuab yeej yog pob zeb ua kev thaiv. Tab sis peb lub ntsiab lus tsis yog ntawd lub vaj huam sib luag nrog kev qhib rau lub qhov rais, uas yog ubiquitous hauv Moscow, tsis muaj kev cuam tshuam rau txhua txoj kev mus rau qhov kev txhim kho thiab qhib, nws yog lub zeem muag nplua nuj uas muaj nws tus kheej qhov chaw ua ke, txawm hais tias neeg tsis yog tus tsim, tab sis yog txhais tes ua ntawm qhov tsim ntawm nws. Qee qhov ntawm lub block muaj tib lub gestalt, zoo li muaj ib yam dab tsi ua rau pom zoo ntawm qhov tseem ceeb ntawm txoj kev nco qab, piv txwv li, muaj qhov thaiv cais, lub qhov rais lintel, uas ua rau muaj kev nyab xeeb, nkag siab txog ib qho twg, txawm tias qhov tsis tau npaj ua ntej. tus saib. Li no, lub vaj huam sib luag ua tiav ntawm ib yam dab tsi ntau tshaj li soulless stamping. Nyeg, vaj huam sib luag nws tus kheej hauv lub siab ntawm cov neeg siv khoom yog cov paib uas qhia txog qee lub sijhawm, kos npe uas kuv sim txhais lus, nthuav qhia cov yam ntxwv ntawm cov khoom. Pob zeb ua kev yuav tsum nyob twj ywm tsis hais tus qauv ua tiav thiab cov xim, nws yog cov khoom siv archetypal uas yuav luag tsis muaj kev cuam tshuam los ntawm kev laus. Tab sis, tsis paub tseeb, muaj lwm yam piv txwv, uas nyob hauv lawv cov qauv thiab "qauv ua ke" tuaj yeem yooj yim hu ua tectonic.
Hais txog lwm yam piv txwv, vim li cas thiaj tsis yog thwv cib, hauv qhov xwm txheej twg hloov thaum chiv thawj? Vim li cas rov ua dua lub log?
- Qhov yog tias hauv Zurich tsis muaj kev coj ua ntawm kev ua haujlwm nrog cib, qhov no yog qee yam tsis yog peb li, nws yog siv tsis tshua muaj, thiab nws tseem kim. Peb tau ua ob peb lub khoom thij zeb tab sis. Kuv hwm cib, tej zaum qhov no yog li cas Stephen Bates, kuv tus phooj ywg Askiv, pab cuam rau kuv. Tab sis, nkag siab, rau Askiv, Holland lossis Belgium - qhov no yog cov khoom siv classic, kev ua haujlwm nrog uas tau tsim cov txheej txheem kev cai muaj zog.
Thiab nyob rau saum toj ntawm uas, cib cuam tshuam txog qee qhov ntsuas uas peb tsis muaj peev xwm them taus. Koj xaiv cov khoom siv kom tau raws li ntau yam kev xav tau, tab sis nws yog ib qho tseem ceeb kom nkag siab tias txhua qhov sib koom ua ke yuav tsum muaj kev sib cais, tsis hais nws cov khoom siv twg. Koj tsis tuaj yeem tsim 100-meter cib fa brickade, txij li muaj ntau cov qauv tsim tshwj xeeb los ntawm cov khoom siv nws tus kheej, koj xav tau nthuav pob qij txha nrog qee lub suab, lwm yam. Qhov tseeb, tsis yog li ntawd, koj tuaj yeem, ntawm chav kawm, tab sis vim li cas ua kom lub tsev raug mob, vim li cas thiaj tua tau qhov ncaj ncees, qhov tseem ceeb tshaj plaws ntawm cov khoom siv no. Hauv kuv cov lus qhuab qhia, kuv tau pom lub tuam tsev Kai Fisker hauv Copenhagen, uas yog qhov loj me, tab sis, hmoov tsis, tsis muaj leej twg tsim txoj kev no lawm.
Txawm tias tus txheej txheem siab nyob hauv Switzerland, tseem muaj bunker hauv txhua lub tsev (thiab qhov no txawm tias koj tsis koom nrog hauv ntiaj teb no kev ua rog). Lub tsev pheeb suab yog lub zog qub tsim, ib feem ntawm koj txoj kev xav uas hais txog kev ruaj ntseg, nws yog qhov chaw nkaum, ib yam zoo ib yam kuv xav hauv kev piv rau lub modernist post-tsov rog hyper-lug ntawm Fernand Pouillon, qee yam zoo sib xws rau hauv koj txoj haujlwm. Peb puas tuaj yeem hais tias koj lub tsev hais plaub pom zoo rau cov duab no, puas yog qhov kev sib txuas no tiag tiag?, los yog qhov no yog kuv li kev xav tawm?
- Tej zaum qhov kev sib txuas no tsis yog lam tau lam ua, tab sis tej zaum nws yog qhov tshwm sim me me los ntawm koj, txij li hauv peb kev coj ua peb hloov lub ntsiab lus los ntawm cov txheej txheem zoo kawg rau lub neej tiag tiag, tab sis hais lus ntawm kev ncaj ncees, tectonics, koj hais yog lawm. Cov vaj tse ntawm Fernand Pouillon yog qhov kev quaj qw hais txog kev ruaj ntseg, lawv tau ua haujlwm, cov qauv ywj pheej, nrog kev sib koom ntawm lub ntsej muag ntawm cov pob zeb. Cov vaj tse no muaj qhov zoo heev hauv lawv qhov chaw, uas cuam tshuam ncaj qha rau lawv hnub nyoog li cas. Piv txwv li, nws lub tsev muaj npe hauv Algeria, Climat de France, tam sim no "tau nyob" ntawm cov neeg siv hauv zos tsis txawv kiag li tus neeg sau ntawv xav kom nws ua, tab sis nws txoj kev tsim yog qhov muaj zog uas "tsis tau tso cai" ntawm colonnades, txhua yam ntawm bricolage, yog tsis muaj txoj hauv kev tuaj yeem ua rau nws tau. Yog li no, kuv sim ua kev coj noj coj ua ntau dua nyob rau hauv kev sib raug zoo nrog cov neeg hauv kuv lub architecture, tso cai rau lawv "tus tswv" lawv cov khoom, txhua lub sijhawm kos hauv kuv lub taub hau cov lus ntawm Luigi Snozzi, leej txiv ntawm Ticino architecture: "Koj yuav tsum tsim vaj tse uas yuav tuag nrog meej mom. " Kuv xav ntseeg tias txhua yam ntawm peb lub tsev yuav yog tsuas yog ib qho zoo nkauj ruag (luag nyav). Peb sim ua tus qauv pauv hloov tau raws li muaj peev xwm ua tau rau lub neej, kwv yees tias nyob ze yav tom ntej nws yuav rov tsim dua, vim koj yuav tsum pom tias lub tsev tsim khoom tsis yog nyob rau lub sijhawm yug xwb. Piv txwv li, peb tau ua qhov project rau lub tsev laus, qhov twg cov qauv pib muab ib daim teb rau kev ua ub no, tsis tas yuav muaj qee qhov xwm txheej tshwj xeeb. Txog ntawm qee yam, rau hom kev qias neeg no, nws yog ib txwm coj los txhim kho cov phab ntsa load-bearing nruab nrab ntawm txhua chav, uas ua rau cov txheej txheem kev hloov kho tsis yooj yim, yog li ntau lub tsev ntawm 1960 tau raug rhuav tshem vim ua tsis raws cai, raws li tus txheej txheem ntawm kev nyob hloov ntau heev.
Tab sis nws tsis zoo uas tus kws kes duab vajtse insists: yog li ntawd, los yog rhuav tshem? Lub tsev ntawm Vanna Venturi tau teeb tsa rau kev muag khoom, yuav ua li cas yog tias tus tswv tsev yav tom ntej mam li nco dheev xav ua ib yam dab tsi nyob ntawd?
- Vim li cas tsis? (laughs) Tau kawg, muaj cov khoom uas tsis tuaj yeem hloov pauv raws li qhov mob ntawm kev tuag, tab sis txhua yam nws nyob ntawm txhua lub tsev ib tus zuj zus. Yog tias architecture tsim liab qab rau cov kev txwv, nws tsis quav ntsej.
Yog hais tias tus qauv yuav ua tau dab tsi rau yav tom ntej, tom qab ntawd, rov qab los rau ib qho kev nthuav qhia ntawm Arch Moscow, yuav tsum architecture ua raws li nws cov ntsiab lus, kuv puas tau hais txog qhov kev luam tawm uas cov koom ua lag luam ua rau lub hom, lossis yuav tus kws kes duab vajtse nyob yam muaj nuj nqi? Koj puas tau nyob hauv kev sib cuag nrog cov neeg nyob hauv nroog yav tom ntej ntawm theem tsim? Puas tau muaj kev tshawb fawb tiav?
- Hauv peb qhov teeb meem no, txoj kev tshawb fawb no yog nyob ntawm xaiv tau, txij li lub sijhawm ua haujlwm sib koom tes yog tus qauv zoo nkauj rau Zurich thiab suav txog thaj tsam li 1/4 ntawm tag nrho cov khoom siv hauv vaj tse. Txawm hais tias tus qauv no tam sim no tab tom ua ntau qhov rov xav txog, MAW [Ntau dua li tsev nyob] muaj lub tswv yim ntawm kev ua tswv ua ke, thiab Trimli yog lub tsev vaj tsev ib txwm muaj. Ua haujlwm hauv cov ntsiab lus no txhais feem ntau yog cov vaj tsev nyob, zam qhov kev qhia ntawm txhua yam kev lag luam tsim. Nws yog qhov zoo dua ua ke ob peb hom ntawm cov tsev sib txig. Hauv "Trimli" muaj ob chav 3-, 4-, 5 chav rau tsev neeg loj, thiab chav tsev me me rau cov neeg laus, tsim rau ib lossis ob tus neeg. Nws yog ib qho tseem ceeb kom nco ntsoov tias ob peb lub xyoo dhau los, qhov loj ntawm thaj chaw hauv thaj chaw tau raug hloov dua tshiab, cov chav tsev tau dhau los ua me dua, tus txheej txheem tshiab tau tshwm sim, qhov tshwm sim ntawm uas muaj kev cuam tshuam loj los ntawm cov teebmeem …
Yog li cia peb rov qab mus ib kauj ruam, uas yog qhov tseem ceeb dua - typology lossis tus qauv?
- Kuv nkag siab, muaj kev tsis sib haum xeeb tau tshwm sim, muaj qee yam uas peb tsis tuaj yeem hloov pauv ntawm hom khoom vaj tse. Hauv keeb kwm ntawm Switzerland, muaj kev tu siab ntawm kev tsim cov kev npaj daws teeb meem rau cov tsev nyob, tab sis thaum koj muaj tsev neeg, cov menyuam yaus, tom qab ntawd koj cov kev xav tau ntawm kev nce qib hauv chav tsev, koj xav tau txais ib lub tsev uas tsis muaj neeg nyob, muaj lub tsev tiv thaiv. Koj lub neej txhua hnub xav tau qee yam haujlwm, lawv kev faib tawm. Rau peb ib feem, peb siv zog muab qhov muaj qhov muaj kuab siv xwm fab xwm meem, kev teeb txheeb uas pom thiab txoj kev ua haujlwm ntawm thaj chaw nyob. Tus kws kes duab vajtse yuav tsum ua haujlwm nrog cov qauv, tsis yog qhia hauv ntawv. Piv txwv li, cov tsev nyob hauv cov tsev, dav hauv lub xyoo pua puv 19, nrog ib tus ntaiv nyob hauv nruab nrab, hauv ntej uas muaj qhov peb hu ua Diele, yog hom tsev nrog ntau lub qhov rooj, muaj ntau lub tsev zoo li no nyob hauv Zurich. Kuv tau nyob hauv ib qho ntawm cov xam phaj thoob tebchaws, lawv tuaj yeem yog chaw ua haujlwm, chaw nyob, txhua qhov chaw, txij li txhua chav ntawm nws muaj nws tus kheej nkag mus ywj pheej. Koj pom, nws yuav tsis tshwm sim rau koj kom tshem lub ntsa loog. Miroslav Sik tseem siv rau cov qauv Swiss no, thiab nws tsis muaj qhov xwm txheej.
– Puas yog koj lub zeem muag ntawm "kev nyob ruaj khov" hauv architecture?
- Yog! Yog tias koj tsis nrhiav kev rhuav tshem, ces qhov no yog qhov zoo tshaj plaws koj tuaj yeem sau. Txawm hais tias nws siv zog ua haujlwm, nws tsim nyog. Cov phiaj xwm thiab chaw, txhua yam cuam tshuam, nrog rau cov khoom siv ntawm lub ntsej muag yog qhov tseem ceeb, vim tias yog koj ua lub tsev los ntawm cov khoom siv pheej yig, tom qab ntawv npaj tias koj lub hlwb yuav vau thaum koj lub neej.
Lub neej nyob hauv lub zos sib koom tes yog ib hom kev tsis sib haum xeeb nrog txoj kev muaj tiag nyob ib puag ncig. Muaj ib yam dab tsi tom qab muaj kev ntxhov siab nyob rau hauv no, zoo li yog peb rov qab los rau lub sijhawm tom qab kev ua tsov ua rog, lossis theej, peb sib npaug tam sim no nrog qhov ntawd, vim tias nws tsis muaj qhov xwm txheej uas tag nrho cov cai no muaj - tsuas yog khub niam txiv muaj peev xwm nyob, qee zaum xwb nrog menyuam yaus, thiab lwm yam. Hauv qhov koj tau hais hauv no MAWG tsuas yog neeg txawj tuag tsis muaj peev xwm nkag tau, nws yog hom hmoov av. Tab sis dab tsi yog lawv tiv thaiv tawm tsam? Warrior? Thoob Ntiaj Tebmuab cais nyob ib leeg? Kev peev nyiaj txiag? Ua kev paub rau tus kheej-tus kheej? Koj yuav ntsuas tus cwj pwm no li cas los ntawm ib tus kws tshaj lij?
- Tej zaum lawv qhia qee yam tsis zoo rau cov kev cai niaj hnub no, tab sis hom kev ua neej no tsuas yog kev ncaj ncees tsis yog los ntawm kev xav xws li los ntawm kev muaj lub siab xav ua lub neej qub nyob rau hauv txhua tus neeg. Qee lub sijhawm dhau los kuv tau tham nrog Anna Bronovitskaya, thiab nws tau hais tias cov neeg Lavxias, vim tias muaj ntau haiv neeg keeb kwm, muaj mob los ntawm txhua yam kev sib sau. Tab sis rau peb qhov no yog qhov sib txawv kiag li. Piv txwv li, tham txog MAW, nws cov neeg hauv zej zog sim tsim qhov chaw uas txhua tus paub lawv tus neeg nyob sib ze los ntawm kev pom, kom muaj kev ntseeg siab. Lawv tau sim los tsim kom muaj kev nyab xeeb ib puag ncig, muaj lub zog ntawm tus qauv ntawm txoj kev tswj hwm. Thiab, ntawm chav kawm, yog tias koj mus tob rau hauv cov tswvyim no, tom qab kev sib koom tes yog nyob deb ntawm lub zej zog, tsis muaj lus nug ntawm cov zej zog ntawm cov khoom lossis kev ua haujlwm. Txhua tus muaj kev xaiv: los ua ib feem ntawm cov kev sib sau lossis tsis. Hauv txhua lub zos muaj qee yam xws li cov tsev lossis pej xeem chaw rau cov neeg nyob sib ze, sib xyaw ua ke. Tab sis kev xaiv, kev xaiv ntawm kev xaiv, cais cov neeg no, nws yog lawv txoj kev txiav txim siab ywj pheej, thiab tsis yuam los ntawm sab nraud.
Koj tsis txhob xav tias txhua yam dhau los ua haujlwm, uas koj daim ntawv hais txog coj zoo, yam ntxwv uas lawv nyob thiab ua haujlwm hauv? Nej tham txog prefabricated tus qauv, pob zeb ua txua, archetype muaj nuj nqis, lawv tham txog tib qho kev tshwm sim, tsuas yog los ntawm kev sib raug zoo ntawm kev xav …
- Los ntawm qhov pom ntawm txoj kev xav, koj hais yog lawm, "Trimley" yog qhov me ntsis hais txog kev rov ua tsov rog tom qab, kuv tuaj yeem hais tias nyob rau ntawm lub sijhawm no tib lub "syndrome", zoo li koj tso nws, tuaj yeem ua rau hauv ua haujlwm ntawm ntau tus kws tshaj lij Scandinavian thiab Askiv. Tom qab kev ua tsov ua rog Scandinavia feem ntau tau muaj kev cuam tshuam zoo heev rau txoj kev tsim vaj tsev ntawm Switzerland, tsis yog rau kev ua haujlwm, tab sis kuj tseem muaj lub siab xav nyob hauv cov tsev me me uas tau tsim los ntawm cov khoom ntuj tsim.
Peb tau tham nrog Yuri Palmin, tham txog monumentality, tsis yog monumentality, radicalism … Thiab, tej zaum, qhov ntawd yog qhov kis, niaj hnub architecture hauv Switzerland yog radical, tab sis tsis monumental, nws tsis qw txog lub npe ntawm tus thawj coj, nws tiv thaiv. Tom qab tag nrho, nws tsis yog qhov teeb meem ntawm nplai, vim tias nws tsis loj txaus, nws yog tus raug, sib raug rau ubiquitous. Kuv yog "neeg phem" vim hais tias nws tsis muaj teeb meem ntawm “tswv ntuj”, nws yog qhov teeb meem ntawm lub neej, uas txhua yam hais txog qhov tseem ceeb. Kuv tsis xav ua cov flashy architecture, Kuv txawm hais tias peb txhua tus neeg koom nrog kev sib tw rau kab lus ntsiag to (luag nyav). Yog li, thaum xub thawj siab ib muag, nws yuav zoo li rau koj tias qhov no yog lub tsev feem ntau tsis muaj dab tsi, tshwj tsis yog tias staircase tau ua rau me ntsis zoo dua li ib txwm. Tej zaum qhov no yog txoj cai Swiss unspoken, peb tsis ua iconic cov tuam tsev, peb siv cov qauv chaw ruaj khov, peb qhia lawv cov kev mus ncig.
