Archi.ru:
Koj ntsuas tus Kex li cas ntawm kev sib sau ntawm Sergei Tchoban pom ntawm qhov chaw ua yeeb yam piv rau cov khoom ntawm avant-garde duab, uas, Kuv xav tias, yog qhov koj paub zoo tshaj feem ntau?
Jean-Louis Cohen, tus kws saib xyuas lub tsev ua yeeb yam:
- Sergei Tchoban cov ntawv sau tau ntau dhau nees nkaum xyoo dhau los. Thiab qhov no yog lub ntsiab lus tseem ceeb heev. Cov ntawv sau tseem ceeb ntawm Lavxias avant-garde duab yog nyob rau hauv A. V. Shchusev hauv Moscow; rau cov kws ua yeeb yam thiab tus naj npawb ntawm cov kws kes duab vajtse, qhov no yog Kostaki sau, ib feem ntawm uas yog nyob hauv Tretyakov Gallery, thiab ib feem ntawm Thessaloniki.
Thiab txij ntawm no pom, sau los ntawm Sergei Tchoban tsis yog qhov sau zoo tshaj plaws uas ib tus tuaj yeem qhia keeb kwm ntawm Soviet architecture nyob rau xyoo 1920 thiab 1930s. Kuv yuav tsum tau txiav txim siab ntawm cov duab kab uas kuv pom nyob ntawm lub txee ntawm Tchoban sau hauv Berlin. Nyob rau tib lub sijhawm, cov ntawv sau no muaj cov haujlwm tshwj xeeb, xws li cov duab kos los ntawm Chernikhov, kos duab los ntawm Burov, lossis Shchusev cov duab kos rau Lenin Mausoleum.
Feem ntau, cov duab uas ua rau ntawm qhov chaw ua yeeb yaj kiab yog cov ntaub ntawv theej duab. Nov yog qhov kuv txhim tsa lub tso rau saib. Nov yog ib qho kev teeb tsa ntawm cov ntaub ntawv kos duab hais txog lub architecture ntawm 1920s - 1930s hauv tebchaws Lavxias.
Puas muaj cov cim tshwj xeeb lossis nthuav tawm hauv cov khoom, ob qho tib si los ntawm qhov pom ntawm kev sau thiab los ntawm koj txoj haujlwm ua tus avant-garde keeb kwm? Dab tsi?
- Yog, hauv kev sau, hauv daim ntawv uas nws tau qhia hauv Paris, peb pom cov duab zoo hauv gouache los ntawm Chernikhov. Burov cov duab kos rau Tag Nrho Cov Lav Xias All-Lavxias Kev Ua Si ntawm Xyoo 1923, cov no yog cov ua haujlwm tshwj xeeb, uas kuv tsis tau paub ua ntej. Cov tub ntxhais kawm ua haujlwm ntawm VKHUTEMAS, nrog txhua nplooj ntawv thiab kev tawm dag zog. Nov yog daim ntawv tsis tshua muaj nqi thiab tsis muaj leej twg txawv.
Kuv tseem yuav sau npe qee qhov haujlwm ntawm kev ua haujlwm tom qab-avant-garde: cov haujlwm ntawm lub xyoo peb caug, kev pib ntawm txoj kev sib tw ntawm cov neeg zej zog tiag tiag, cov no tseem yog cov haujlwm tseem ceeb heev. Kev xam pom loj ntawm Boris Iofan's Palace ntawm Soviets, txawm hais tias qhov no yog ib qho ntawm ntau qhov kev paub zoo ntawm kev xav. Qhov tsis tshua nyiam nthuav dav rau Iofan txoj haujlwm thib ob rau lub Palace ntawm Soviets. Thiab tseem yog cov khoom uas ua tiav kev nthuav dav: kev ua haujlwm ntawm Moisei Ginzburg "Chaw Ua Si ntawm Kev Ncaj Ncees" hauv Tbilisi - Kuv tsis tau pom dab tsi zoo li nws ua ntej.
Muaj qhov tseeb nrhiav hauv Tchoban cov khoom.
Txog qhov ntev npaum li cas koj xav tias cov neeg tuaj saib Fabkis paub zoo txog lub architecture ntawm Lavxias avant-garde, lossis nws puas yog cov khoom siv tshiab thiab tsuas yog cov kws tshwj xeeb paub nws?
- Cov neeg mloog Fabkis, rau feem ntau, paub me ntsis txog kev kos duab ntawm Lavxias avant-garde. Muaj kev ua yeeb yam loj "Moscow - Paris", thaum nws tau qhia tias muaj pes tsawg qhov haujlwm ntawm Lavxias avant-garde. Tab sis nws siv 38 xyoo dhau los, ntau tiam neeg. Txij thaum ntawd los, muaj ntau qhov kev ua yeeb yam me me, tab sis tseem tsis muaj qhov tseem ceeb thiab tseem ceeb tso rau sawv daws. Qhov kev ua yeeb yam ntawm kev ua haujlwm los ntawm kev sau Tchoban yog ib yam tshiab rau pej xeem.
Koj suav nrog qhov project ntawm Boris Iofan's Palace ntawm Soviets nyob rau hauv kev nthuav qhia tias "Architecture ntawm Lavxias Avant-garde", txawm tias koj tau xaiv cov khoom no hloov ua "mus rau ntawm kev coj zoo", tab sis suav nrog. Koj xav tias qhov no muaj tseeb?
- Lub npe ntawm cov khoom siv ua yeeb yam - "Architecture ntawm Lavxias Avant-garde" - tsis sib haum rau txhua qhov kev ua haujlwm nthuav tawm ntawm nws, tab sis kuv xav tias lub npe yuav tsum tsis txhob txiav tawm, tab sis kev paub tab, txhawm rau teeb tsa txoj kab dav dav Cov.
Lub rooj nthuav qhia muaj tseeb qhia txog kev hloov mus rau txoj kev coj noj coj ua tiag tiag thiab kev tshem tawm avant-garde. Kuv xav tias nws yog qhov tseem ceeb los qhia, ntawm ib sab tes, thaum pib, thawj zaug kev sim ntawm kev ua yeeb yam avant-garde, muab qee cov ntaub ntawv luv luv txog VKHUTEMAS, qhia txog Kev Ua Yeeb Yam Khoom Noj Hauv Xyoo 1923, tab sis kuj qhia txog "epilogue": "Palace of Soviets" los ntawm Iofan. Ginzburg qhov haujlwm rau Tbilisi kuj yog epilogue, rau qee yam nws yog "lig tsim tau", uas yog qhov txaus nyiam heev hauv nws tus kheej.
Yog tias kuv muaj cov duab ntxiv los ntawm xyoo 1920 thiab thaum ntxov xyoo 1930 thaum kuv pov tseg, tom qab ntawd kuv tuaj yeem ua ib qho khoom pov thawj txog lub sijhawm txij xyoo 1917 mus rau 1932 nrog cov ntaub ntawv no xwb. Tab sis kuj tsis yog li ntawd thiab. Cov duab zoo nkauj ntawm Zhivskulptarh thiab Sinsculptarh, cov haujlwm thaum ntxov ntawm Cov Neeg Tsim Vaj Tsev yog nyob hauv qhov sau ntawm Lub Tsev khaws puav pheej ntawm Architecture. A. V. Shchusev thiab hauv Kostaki sau. Ginzburg cov ntawv pov thawj tau ploj lawm. Burov cov ntaub ntawv khaws cia yog khaws cia hauv Lub Tsev khaws puav pheej ntawm Lub Tsev khaws puav pheej, Vesnin qhov chaw khaws cia yog qhov qub chaw. Cov ntaub ntawv sau los ntawm Khan-Magomedov yog mas nyob rau hauv Lakhman kev sau. Tsis muaj ntau cov kab kos uas yuav qhia tau tus saib. Kuv ua ib qho kev nthuav dav nrog cov ntaub ntawv uas kuv muaj ntawm kuv qhov kev pov tseg thiab ntau yam uas tau muab ua qhov kev tshawb pom rau kuv.
Thiab feem ntau - txog qhov twg koj xav tias lub architecture ntawm avant-garde thiab, hais, lub palace ntawm Iofan yog cov thaiv kev?
- Yog tias peb sib piv Iofan's Palace ntawm Soviets thiab Leonidov lub koom haum Lenin, peb yuav pom qhov muaj txiaj ntsig tsis zoo ntawm ob txoj haujlwm no. Qhov no tsis txaus ntseeg. Tab sis yog tias peb piv rau Iofan txoj haujlwm nrog cov phiaj xwm uas avant-garde cov kws tshaj lij xa mus rau kev sib tw ntawm lub Palace ntawm Soviets, tej yam ua tsis pom tseeb. Kuv txhais tau tias cov phiaj xwm ntawm Ginzburg, Ladovsky thiab cov haujlwm ntawm lwm qhov, ntau dhau los ua vaj tsev li Iofan.
Iofan - yog kev npau taws rau nws, nws yog muralist, kawm hauv Roman tsev kawm ntawv. Nws tsis tau muaj kws tshaj lij radical, ua yeeb yam hauv tsis muaj ib qho ntawm nws cov phiaj xwm, tsuas yog ua tau ntawm lub chaw tu neeg mob hauv Barvikha.
Lub sijhawm ua haujlwm ntawm kev ua haujlwm ntawm "Palace of Soviets", txhua tus neeg koom nrog kev sib tw yuav tsum ua tib zoo xav txog lub tswvyim ntawm "monument" thiab vim li no muaj ntau qhov tseem ceeb zoo sib xws ntawm cov haujlwm ntau dua li peb xav.
Koj puas tau txaus siab rau qhov tshwm sim tawm?
- Kuv xav tias qhov kev ua yeeb yam tau tiav. Kuv tau txais cov lus tawm tswv yim los ntawm kuv cov npoj yaig, uas muaj kev paub txog kev ua yeeb yam, los ntawm cov kws tshawb nrhiav keeb kwm, txhua tus neeg tsis muaj kev xav tias qhov no yog kev nthuav qhia uas tswj tau los qhia txog cov keeb kwm nyuaj ntawm Soviet avant-garde, los ntawm cov ntaub ntawv uas yog cov duab kos duab. Qhov no kuj tau ua tsaug rau Natalia Solopova tus laconic scenography. Thiab ua tsaug rau cov qauv siv duab nraaj - cov lus pom tau sau rau txhua ntu, thiab cov ncauj lus kom ntxaws tau sau rau txhua qhov haujlwm.
Kuv ntseeg tias kev nthuav tawm ntawm kev nthuav tawm tau muab cov haujlwm ua haujlwm rau kev sib tham nrog kev sib tham. Dab tsi yog qhov tseem ceeb tshaj plaws rau kev nthuav qhia, thaum txhua qhov haujlwm tsis yog "nyob hauv nws tus kheej", tab sis tau sib tham nrog lwm cov haujlwm. Ib qho piv txwv ntawm kev sib tham ntawm ob txoj haujlwm yog cov phiaj xwm rau lub Palace ntawm Soviets. Golosov cov duab kos thiab Iofan qhov haujlwm thib ob. Ob txoj haujlwm no yog qhov tseem ceeb ob qho Colosseums, uas zoo heev rau ib leeg.
Peb pom yuav ua li cas qee cov tswv yim dhau los ntawm ib tus kws kes duab vajtse mus rau lwm tus, tsim kho lub sijhawm no, uas tau luv sijhawm. Peb pom li cas typological nrhav tsim. Raws li cov tuam tsev ntawm kev tswj hwm tshiab tshwm sim, feem ntau "thau" raws cim - lub Lenin Mausoleum thiab "Palace of Soviets".
Ib lo lus nug rau Natalia Solopova, tus sau hais txog kev nthuav tawm:
Cov hom phiaj dab tsi koj tau teev tseg thaum ua haujlwm nrog kev tsim qauv ntawm kev ua yeeb yam, lub tswv yim tseem ceeb yog dab tsi? Koj hais dab tsi? Koj txaus siab npaum li cas rau qhov tshwm sim?
Natalia Solopova:
- Ib qho kev nthuav dav yog, ua ntej ntawm txhua qhov, lub tswv yim curatorial. Thiab cov haujlwm ntawm tus qauv tsim qauv yog los qhia lub tswv yim no hauv qhov chaw thiab muab nws qhia rau tus saib. Qhov chaw ua yeeb yam - Bon Chaw Ua Haujlwm - yog qhov chaw nyuaj: me me thiab "littered", nyob rau hauv uas muaj ntau txoj haujlwm ua ke nyob rau tib lub sijhawm: chaw cia khoom kos duab, chaw ua yeeb yam thiab thaj chaw ua haujlwm rau cov neeg ua haujlwm txee.
Qhov daws teeb meem zoo nkauj yog qhov xim grey ntawm cov ntawv tshaj tawm uas cov duab tau dai, ua ib hom kev sib koom ua ke ntawm tag nrho kev nthuav qhia. Cov ntawv qhia txog cov xim liab ntawm cov ntu thiab cov ntawv loj ntawm cov neeg pom ntawm cov neeg ua yeeb yam hauv Rodchenko cov ntawv sau xa peb mus rau cov kab kev tawm tsam.
Kuv zoo siab nrog lub txiaj ntsig. Tab sis, qhov tseem ceeb tshaj plaws, kev txiav txim los ntawm cov nkag hauv phau ntawv qhua, Fab Kis pej xeem txaus siab rau qhov khoom ua yeeb yam.
